His Way Out Ministries Podcasts are dedicated to equipping, educating, and encouraging the Body of Christ to reach out and minister to individuals, families, and churches impacted by the brokenness of same-sex attraction.

Season 1, Episode 1
For many years, the crisis of truth we have faced and the ongoing crisis is ultimately not about homosexuality. “The crisis” is the Lordship of Christ and the Authority of Scripture.

“I will praise your name for your loving kindness and your truth, for you have magnified your word above your name.” Psalm 138

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Homosexuality: A Crisis of Truth with Pastor Phillip Lee – Download MP3 –

All past episodes of His Way Out Ministries Radio Broadcast are available by following THIS LINK or selecting the “Audio Podcast” category to the right.

For all Christians, there is an ongoing struggle between the flesh and spirit that is often a daily reality.

Therefore, which of these two natures is the real me? More specifically, what does this inner conflict mean for the person leaving homosexuality?

For every Christian, overcoming his or her past, whether it is homosexuality or some other life-dominating struggle, is an ongoing process of spiritual growth. In some respects, it never ends. The transformation of anyone struggling with same-sex attraction is a maturing experience similar to that of any believer. The journey out of the brokenness of same-sex attraction is not unique at all. It just has different twists and turns along the way from that of the average heterosexual seeking healing from his or her past.

Without a doubt, stopping homosexual “acting out” is a significant, important first step. But what then? One of the deepest root issues that every man and woman must change in order to experience freedom from his or her homosexual background is a change in their thoughts and identity.

Identity, the core sense of who we are, is probably the deepest and most difficult area to experience change. This is where Scripture can have its most powerful effect. Am I defined by my feelings or by whom God says I am?

Every former homosexual that I have met has repeatedly told me that the reason they have been successful in abandoning homosexuality has been solely due to obedience to God’s Word. Changing their same-gender attraction was a side effect of a much larger goal: being conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.

Many men and women have found homosexuality to be ultimately disappointing, certainly less than totally fulfilling. Many have sensed that there is something more available…and they want it. However, seeking a ‘straight lifestyle’ is a flawed and misdirected motive for coming out of homosexuality. The ultimate goal and focus should be seeking and reaching spiritual maturity, and not just experiencing a certain sexual orientation.

There is evidence for change from homosexuality right in the New Testament church. In speaking to the Corinthian believers, the Apostle Paul said that some of them had been involved in various sinful lifestyles, including homosexuality. But then he declared, “And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the spirit of our God.” (1 Corinthians 6:11)

Coming out of homosexuality is not a new phenomenon. It has been occurring in the Church since the days of the first-century church, if not before. The message of hope for overcoming same-gender attraction has been declared for centuries. With that in mind, I hope you will find the following testimonies encouraging and thought-provoking. To God be the glory!

“I am amazed at the change in me. Other people see it as well. Yes, I still experience temptation from time to time, but I now have the strength and the desire to turn away from it. I am so filled with compassion to help others who have the same issue of same-sex attraction that I can’t explain it. I know that it is the Holy Spirit at work in me. I know that I am just a babe in Christ and that I must grow in knowledge and maturity. I wait patiently for the time to come when God calls me to help. I pray daily He will use me to help others. I want to thank you so much for His Way Out Ministries. It is a truly needed ministry in this world. I wish the Church would face this issue more directly and speak of it openly and remove the stigma it has associated with it. I just feel like so many people could be helped more easily. May God bless your ministry…Mike.”

“It was truly God’s plan and blessing that His Way Out Ministries was here in Bakersfield, California just when I needed healing and restoration. You devoted an enormous amount of time, love, and understanding to me and I appreciate it and still do appreciate it. You made a positive impact not only on my life but the life of my wife and children. When we all see each other in Glory, you will be able to see how many generations you have affected. I praise God for His Way Out Ministries. Please, please, please never be disheartened or discouraged. You are a conduit of God’s love…Jim.”

“I asked Jesus to fully invade my heart and rescue me. I would love to tell you that there was an immediate surge of electricity throughout my body or there was a mighty gush of the Holy Spirit upon me, but that is not how God worked with me. That said, there was an undeniable peace in my heart. The events that followed are nothing short of miracles especially after all the bridges I had burned. I called my parents who helped me get into a Christian drug program in Vista, CA and after about four months of being sober, I began to become truly convicted of my same-sex attraction. My mom, a seasoned prayer warrior, had been in prayer all these years and hunting down any and all ministries for those who struggle with same-sex attraction. She began sending me articles and newsletters from Pastor Lee and His Way Out Ministries with the content just making sense. Finally, I wasn’t alone and I began to see and understand my true struggle wasn’t my drug abuse. For the past eight years, I have been rebuilding my life and learning how to have a relationship with God. It hasn’t been without its trials or its joys. Ultimately, you do not have to surrender to a lie. You have to surrender to God…Kenny.”

Ministering to men, women and their families is a joyous opportunity to share in the comfort that Christ has given to all of us. It says in 2 Corinthians 1:3-5, “Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our troubles so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God. For just as the sufferings of Christ flow over into our lives, so also through Christ our comfort overflows.”

Pastor Phillip Lee
Executive Director
His Way Out Ministries

Please consider making a donation at www.hiswayout.com/donate. Thank you, Pastor Phillip Lee

Thirty years ago, surrendering my life to Christ Jesus and saying goodbye to homosexuality, did I ever even once consider I would find myself front and center of one of the greatest crossroads the Church has ever faced. Homosexuality has become perhaps the most controversial social issue of our time, presenting a host of difficult, if not divisive questions. What exactly is homosexuality and how is it caused? Is homosexual practice morally good? Is homosexual practice beneficial or detrimental to the individual? What’s the best way to respond to the gay agenda that relentlessly bombards us through various social and political agendas?

While the above is certainly important and relevant, I believe a far greater issue and concern is at hand. Homosexuality should not have been nor should it now be the primary concern of the Church. What has been unfolding for decades and continues today is a rejection of God and a suppressing of His truth in favor of being wise in our own eyes. Plainly, we are in pride and rebellion against God.

Romans 1:29-32 tells us the consequence of a society which ignores and suppresses His truth is a people “filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, back-biters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.”

At the very heart of this dark shadow that hangs over the Church is an important question each faithful follower of Christ Jesus must ask: Will I reject the authority of the Word of God or will I by the power of the Holy Spirit surrender and conform my life to the Word of God?

Just the fact alone that we are continuing to debate whether or not the Bible clearly states that homosexuality is sinful validates “they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itchy ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.” (2 Timothy 4:3-4)

There are those that focus entirely on the world continuing to wax worse and worse and therefore what’s the point of reaching to and helping many “come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil” (2 Timothy 2:24-26) in these last days?

Truth must be spoken and it must be spoken with compassion, understanding, and the knowledge that truth often cuts extremely deep before it can begin to bring about healing and wholeness. Ultimately, faithful followers of Christ Jesus must speak the truth about homosexuality because it is truth alone that will bring about freedom and wholeness.

Thirty years ago, it was Christians, speaking both truth and grace into my life that made all the difference. I would not be here today without them. My particular sin and brokenness was not overlooked but rather talked about openly and in conjunction with many, many other sins. For the first time in my life, I began to be who God created me to be which, by the way, also included loving even the broken parts as He did and does.

Jesus said, “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it” (Matthew 7:13-14).

Truthless grace accomplishes nothing.

Pastor Phillip Lee
Executive Director
His Way Out Ministries

His Way Out has been faithfully ministering to men and women seeking a way out of sexually broken lifestyles since 1994. We could not do it without the support of Christians like you. Every dollar that you give to His Way Out Ministries helps to further this vital ministry. Won’t you take a minute to prayerfully consider a monthly donation to His Way Out? Please consider making a one-time donation or set up a secure monthly PayPal contribution on our donation page at https://www.hiswayout.com/donate/. Thank you, Pastor Phillip Lee

I returned from the Marriage, Family Life, and Sexual Health Conference with 49 index cards – each card offering a question about homosexuality by an individual or family in attendance for the one-day conference. Of the 49 cards, 7 of the cards posed questions related to, “How does one resolve the issue of same-sex attraction?” The remaining 42 cards all focused upon, “How do I reach out to my gay-identified friend or family member with love, mercy, gentleness, and compassion while not compromising the truth and clarity of Scripture with regard to homosexual practice?”

Based upon my travels through churches of various denominations here in America and overseas, congregation members are not being equipped and educated on the complexities of same-sex attraction and related issues, and as a result are paying a very high price, if not feeling like failures. As one man shared with me at a recent conference, “We’re getting slammed due to a lack of knowledge and practical tools that would help us be more effective in reasoning with and reaching those that promote the ‘gay is good’ notion.”

It is an undeniable fact that homosexual activists are highly organized, have a strategic plan, and are gaining public acceptance with regard to their beliefs and cause. Today, with everyone knowing at least one person who experiences same-sex attraction, why are we, the Church, still so ill-equipped to help those who are being held captive by the brokenness of same-sex attraction? Especially, with regard to congregation members that are clearly and undeniably hungry to be educated and equipped.

Today, not only are believers falling into homosexual sin and legitimizing it but many within the uninformed Church are applauding them as they do. Laws are being changed, homosexual marriage is marching from state to state and nation to nation. Educational systems are becoming more tolerant of homosexual practice by falsely teaching pro-homosexual lessons through health education curriculum. And, far too many churches and Christian organizations are giving a friendly nod to gay ideology, making Isaiah’s famous warning more relevant than ever:

“Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness” (Isaiah 5:20).

Clearly, we, the Church, need to acknowledge and address our own dysfunctionality of not complying with the Gospel. Or, permit me to say it this way…

If we are not educating and equipping the Church with practical tools to be more effective in reaching those with unwanted same-sex attraction and offering ministry to those with unwanted same-sex attraction, we are not fulfilling The Great Commission.

I believe any concerned individual who cares enough to be educated on the subject of homosexuality is then more than able to introduce the ministry of transformation to a local congregation. We, the Church, must be a witness to society that we are educated on the brokenness of same-sex attraction and we can also discuss and even debate this issue in love so that the Church will be a model for reconciliation with God and with others.

Personally, I remain concerned we the Church are often more concerned about “those out there” who are suffering injustice than we appear to be concerned about our own who are suffering the needless pain that this life can sometimes bring. We can not hold back needed ministry because of the objections of a few.

We must affirm the biblical position that God loves all people, that homosexual practice is one sin among many and that the Holy Spirit is available to transform all persons – including homosexual persons.

We must minister to persons struggling with homosexuality, their families, and all others affected by homosexuality as partners in Christ’s work of healing while integrating all persons striving to live as faithful disciples of Jesus Christ into full membership in the local church.

While we, in and of ourselves cannot promise healing to any person, even though we are convinced that God can and does heal many, we must continue to see the Body of Christ as the primary agent for any and all transformation. The ministry of hope, healing, wholeness, and transformation takes place in the Body of Christ, The Church.

It is imperative the Body of Christ stand against current trends in today’s society that have and continue to distort human sexuality as God intended and created it.

In the end, we will be successful by extending a ministry solution. We are individually and collectively part of God’s plan by offering the ministry of transformation and humbly realizing God has called us to partner with Him in His plan.

What a privilege. What an honor. What a responsibility.

“…where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty” (2 Corinthians 3:17).

For a selection of Educational Workshops offered by His Way Out Ministries, please visit hiswayout.com/educational-workshops

Pastor Phillip Lee
Executive Director
His Way Out Ministries

His Way Out has been faithfully ministering to men and women seeking a way out of sexually broken lifestyles since 1994. We could not do it without the support of Christians like you. Every dollar that you give to His Way Out Ministries helps to further this vital ministry. Won’t you take a minute to prayerfully consider a monthly donation to His Way Out? Please consider making a one-time donation or set up a secure monthly PayPal contribution on our donation page at https://www.hiswayout.com/donate/. Thank you, Pastor Phillip Lee

Today, more than ever, men and women (heterosexual or homosexual) face the relentless onslaught of staying pure in a very, very impure world. The music industry, news media, educational system, TV and the Internet are keeping all of us completely saturated in a lust-filled atmosphere. The end result for many has become the insatiable quest for pleasing “self” which takes each individual outside of God’s will, plan, and purpose and not trusting Him to supply all of their needs. In America, especially, ‘feeling good’ has become a narcotic.

When anyone, homosexual or heterosexual, takes matters into their own hands and makes the conscious choice to stray beyond God’s holy boundary lines with regard to sexual expression, the formula for bringing terrible consequences upon ourselves is set.

I believe we all should accept the fact that as long as we are on this earth, we will all be engaged in combating something. The undeniable truth is that our flesh will always be at war with the Spirit of God.

“For the flesh lusts against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things you wish.” (Galatians 5:17)

That said, it remains important for each and every one of us to remember that even though we live in a culture that promotes a love of pleasure and self-indulgence, Jesus will never ask anything of us that is impossible for us to obey.

Many men and women today have made the quest for “love” the omnipotent, validating quality which has the power to validate anything that is done in its name which includes frequent sexual activity. Tragically, many now view “sex” as the byword for “love.”

Habitual sex, for many, has become a protective mechanism, a wall that endeavors to protect one’s self because a fear of truly being intimate exists largely due to unresolved wounds and past hurts. In other words, the brokenness of our self-image and love of sin must be and can only be quenched by the reality of receiving the greatness of God’s love.

This Scriptural truth enables and sets the stage for a transformation of our will.
Something sexual activity alone can never, ever accomplish.

Admittedly, we are sexual beings. That is how God created us. Ultimately, our sexuality is a wonderful gift from God providing sexual expression remains within His well-defined holy boundary lines. Habitual sexual activity perpetuates a downward spiral which most definitely clouds one’s judgment and ultimately hardens our heart. True intimacy or closeness with another human being becomes impaired and the life-giving flow of God that we all need desperately in our lives becomes strained.

Each and every one of us will always be left with the choice of whether to stop a sinful behavior or not, even after God pours His grace upon us enabling us to stop. Sex alone can never fill the void, emptiness, the deficit that exists in the human heart. The inner emotional drive which compels many to commit habitual sexual scenarios can only be healed, transformed, and filled by God.

God often challenges us to achieve victory and competence in the very areas of our lives where we feel we lack ability. I submit He does not do this to frustrate us or even to deny us, but rather to fulfill the right and true desires of our hearts.

The Good News remains that if we let Jesus into our sexuality and heart, we will begin to heal and experience an intimacy with God that defies explanation. An intimate sexual activity alone can never fulfill. Rather than caving in to complete despair because of the battle or desires of the flesh, hold on to the fact there is strength (overcoming strength) and hope because Jesus Himself promises us that we would never be forsaken or snatched from His hand (John 10:28).

The Lord Jesus will keep anyone who wants to be kept.

“Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.” (Romans 8:37)

“This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down His life for us.” (1 John 3:16)

May we all have the courage, conviction, and commitment to do what is right in His sight.

Pastor Phillip Lee
Executive Director
His Way Out Ministries

His Way Out has been faithfully ministering to men and women seeking a way out of sexually broken lifestyles since 1994. We could not do it without the support of Christians like you. Every dollar that you give to His Way Out Ministries helps to further this vital ministry. Won’t you take a minute to prayerfully consider a monthly donation to His Way Out? Please consider making a one-time donation or set up a secure monthly PayPal contribution on our donation page at https://www.hiswayout.com/donate/. Thank you, Pastor Phillip Lee

“Restoration comes when you realize the light at the end of the tunnel is NOT a train!”(Lessons learned from the pit. Ugh!)

Today, often caught in the middle of the emotional conflict regarding “change” is the person who struggles with unwanted same-sex attraction. To him, (and I use the pronoun generically for both men and women) the issue of change is more than just an issue of emotional debate. It strikes at the very core of his being, either bringing hope or despair.

The Oxford American Dictionary defines change as to make or become different; to pass from one form or phase into another. Certainly, for any individual the greatest change is to become a Christian and know that your ultimate eternal destination has been changed from hell to heaven; to become born-again.

Having been around the phenomenon of change for quite some time, I am convinced that much of the conflict regarding same-sex attraction and change comes from a misunderstanding of the meaning of change. Redemptive changes occur in all healing, restoration processes, our past involvement in sinful behavior, and what it was that pushed us toward the particular sin in the first place. With same-sex attraction, it is no different. The contributing factors to a person having an issue with same-sex attraction are numerous and complex. However, that does not minimize God’s power and sovereignty, nor does it change the undeniable biblical evidence that God can change the life of a person involved in homosexuality. Homosexuals have been experiencing change since the Bible was written. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

It occurred to me early on in my new life in Christ Jesus that the Gospel never once stated “come as you are and stay as you are” but rather “come as you are to be restored and transformed.”

Not unlike a multitude of others, I thought (at least to a degree), that a lot of my “stuff” would instantaneously just “poof” and disappear. It didn’t occur to me that I did not arrive at my broken place in life overnight, therefore not everything was going to be resolved overnight. I had programmed deep into my thinking a whole truckload of experiences, activities, and beliefs that were anything but what God had intended. And, nobody pushed the “clear button” when I became a believer. All of that stuff (lies) was recorded in my mind and enabled the strongholds which directly affected how I say myself and others.

And, so, began a process of spiritual growth that continues to this day. I began facing and working through character faults, past hurts, immaturities, and a list of insecurities. You know, stuff! Often taking life disappointments and broken dreams to Jesus. Only He truly knows the answers to your problems.

One of the biggest and highest hurdles I first had to face down was the admittance I needed to make changes. Frankly, having to admit I needed to change was pretty tough since I could recall having same-gender attraction for as long as I could remember, and those feelings and emotions ‘felt’ natural. Ultimately, admitting that change was needed and necessary translated to “there’s something wrong with the way I am and the way I live.” You know, that’s a huge blow to one’s ego especially when you come to the realization that the changes needed cannot be accomplished alone.

I would definitely equate leaving homosexuality as comparable to submitting to major spiritual surgery. Bam! Instantaneously, your whole identity becomes in absolute turmoil. That should not be so surprising since anytime we make a change in our behavior, it is usually because the pain involved in that behavior far outweighs the pleasure. Maybe you noticed as I did many, many years ago that while we know intellectually that we must make a change, our feelings do not necessarily follow – men and women that say goodbye to homosexuality or lesbianism, experience grief, disorientation, and confusion. This is because someone we have known, been well acquainted with for a long, long time, is now dying. It is perfectly understandable that this loss impacts our lives and we grieve.

How well I remember launching out into the very, very uncomfortable dimension of the restoration process by opening up and placing under the Holy Ghost microscope, old, unresolved wounds. Ugh! I hated “going there” but I also understood that implementing necessary changes in my life necessitated retracing certain steps that enabled me to arrive at such a desperate place in life. Identifying painful situations which enabled the brokenness of same-sex attraction and working through them is just part of the whole process.

I am often asked, “Why do some make it out of homosexuality while others don’t?” I am convinced the common denominator among the men and women that have experienced a significant change in their lives involved the consideration of total surrender and control in their lives. In other words, nothing short of total commitment to the will of God (despite feelings, emotions, hormones, temptations, etc.) holds the same-sex attracted individual to the discipline needed for change. Ultimately, it is the individual’s decision and follow-through of putting God on the throne of his or her life instead of self.

Freedom, change, healing, restoration only occurs when we look upward to Jesus and are purposed to enter more deeply into fellowship with Him. As our Creator, God is the only one who knows exactly how to restore us and bring about change.

“I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.” (John 12:24-25 NIV)

Here’s a thought. When an individual who was once controlled by his or her sin is now free from that sin and engaged in a new kind of life pattern, hasn’t change occurred?

One day (I remember this so well), I had one of those “Ah-Ha!” moments. It finally hit me after a very, very long period of time that I was most definitely a “guy” that just happened to have different interests, gifts, and talents that did not necessarily match the abilities, gifts, and talents of others. No gender confusion, just gifts God had granted me and placed within me to ultimately honor and glorify Him. I have heard it said, “Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed.” Boy had I bought into a truckload of negatives about myself.

Thank you Jesus for leaving the light on for me to find my way out of the negatives and darkness.

Oswald Chambers states in My Utmost for His Highest, “A man is a slave for obeying unless behind his obedience there is recognition of a Holy God.” I find it remarkable that God never insists on our obedience, but when we truly know Him, we want to instantly obey Him, change, and live according to His perfect will from sunup to sundown.

To this day, I thank God I did not become a Christian to leave homosexuality. I became a Christian because Jesus just made sense. Heaven knows, where I came from and what I was doing made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Today, I continue to find that God will take me as far as I am willing to go. The path of healing from same-sex attraction comes about only through a genuine and intimate relationship with Jesus Christ. The addiction and bondage to homosexuality can be broken. I say “can be” because Jesus has given us free will. The essential first step is wanting Christ and all that He offers.

The only remedy for any lie you may have embraced or bought into about yourself or homosexuality is to confront it with truth…His truth.

Pastor Phillip Lee
Executive Director
His Way Out Ministries

His Way Out has been faithfully ministering to men and women seeking a way out of sexually broken lifestyles since 1994. We could not do it without the support of Christians like you. Every dollar that you give to His Way Out Ministries helps to further this vital ministry. Won’t you take a minute to prayerfully consider a monthly donation to His Way Out? Please consider making a one-time donation or set up a secure monthly PayPal contribution on our donation page at https://www.hiswayout.com/donate/. Thank you, Pastor Phillip Lee

His Way Out Ministries Podcasts are dedicated to equipping, educating, and encouraging the Body of Christ to reach out and minister to individuals, families, and churches impacted by the brokenness of same-sex attraction.

Joe Dallas

Season 5, Episode 22
Special Guest: Joe Dallas, ordained pastoral counselor, speaker, and author of numerous books including Speaking of Homosexuality, The Gay Gospel, When Homosexuality Hits Home, and The Complete Christian Guide to Understanding Homosexuality.

Pastor Phillip and Joe Dallas continue discussing Can Homosexuals Really Change, What is Pro-Gay Theology, What is the Real Crisis We Face Today, Truth and Grace, The Gay Christian, and When Homosexuality Hits Home.

HWOM Podcast with Joe Dallas pt2
– Download MP3 –

All past episodes of His Way Out Ministries Radio Broadcast are available by following THIS LINK or selecting the “Audio Podcast” category to the right.