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His Way Out Ministries Podcasts are dedicated to equipping, educating, and encouraging the Body of Christ to reach out and minister to individuals, families, and churches impacted by the brokenness of same-sex attraction.

Pastor Phillip Lee & Pastor Joel Splawn

Season 5, Episode 5
Pastor Phillip Lee and special guest Pastor Joel Splawn, Senior Pastor, Kern Christian Church, Lake Isabella, CA.

Is there any allowance in Scripture for homosexual practice? If I disagree with homosexual practice does that make me a bigot, hateful, or homophobic? Is change possible for the homosexual? How should a pastor lead his congregation to effectively love homosexuals? There was a time when objective moral truth was acknowledged in America as something that could be found in, and drawn from the Bible.

Pastor Joel also shares in great detail his own battle with same-sex attraction and how powerfully God moved in his life enabling him to be an overcomer.

Listen online or download the podcast.

In Truth and Love with Joel Splawn pt2
– Download MP3 –

Learning about homosexuality and understanding God’s perspective on same-gender attraction will go a long way in increasing our effectiveness in sharing the Good News of Jesus Christ.

How confident are you in offering a response to the following to your gay neighbor, a close relative, a member in your church, or the one you’ve yet to meet?

1. True or False? The person struggling with same-gender attraction is often confused about the Christian viewpoint.

2.True or False? Science has conclusively proven that homosexuals are “born that way”.

3. The statement “Homosexuality is the worst of all sins” is (a) Scripturally correct, (b) shows a lack of understanding the Bible, (c) may be true in a practical sense, (d) stating it is harder to overcome than many other sins.

4. A child raised in church and a Christian family (a) has no chance of becoming homosexual, (b) must reject the church in order to practice homosexuality, (c) can develop homosexually, (d) becomes gay when they reject God.

5. After becoming a Christian, the individual will (a) become heterosexual at some point, (b) become heterosexual, (c) still never be free of same-gender attraction, (d) may still experience temptation from time to time.

6. Homosexuality is (a) always a choice, (b) always genetic, (c) always related to childhood sexual abuse, (d) none of the above.

7. The ideal response to homosexuality is to (a) “love the sinner, but hate the sin”, (b) always preach repentance, (c) befriend and establish relationship, (d) ignore them.

8. True or False? Not one Scripture in the entire Bible encourages or promotes homosexual practice.

9. The word that best describes how most gays view the Christian church is (a) Hate, (b) Distrust, (c) Admiratiion, (d) Humor.

10. The statement “Homosexuality is worse than any other sin” (a) is true Scripturally-speaking, (b) isn’t true Scripturally-speaking, but is true practically speaking, (c) shows a lack of understanding of one’s own sin, (d) means that it is harder to overcome than other sins.

Answers to the Pop Quiz Questions are below.

If you struggled in coming to a decision about any of the offered questions, please consider hosting a His Way Out Ministries Educational Workshop at your church. For a detailed list of various workshops please visit our Educational Workshops page.

Pop Quiz Answers
1. True
2. False
3. b) Shows a lack of understanding the Bible
4. c) Can develop homosexually
5. d) May still experience temptation from time to time
6. d) None of the above
7. c) Befriend and establish relationship
8. True
9. d) Distrust
10. c) Shows a lack of understanding of one’s own sin

His Way Out Ministries, for the last 26 years led by Pastor Phillip Lee, has been raising awareness and encouraging the Body of Christ to minister to those who struggle with sexual and relational brokenness through a personal relationship with Christ Jesus.

On Saturday, August 1, 2020, the Board of Directors for His Way Out Ministries convened to acknowledge and discuss that the need for this ministry has never been greater.

As a result, His Way Out Ministries is pleased to announce that Pastor Phillip Lee will not be retiring and will continue to lead as Executive Director of His Way Out Ministries – North America, South America and the Caribbean.


Current technology will permit the transition to primarily digital and on-line platforms to offer and present our message along with our radio broadcasts on KERI 1410AM. The physical office will be phased out enabling Pastor Phillip greater flexibility and ministry opportunities in terms of personal witness, educating, encouraging and equipping the Body of Christ.

His Way Out Ministries repudiates any and all non-loving attitudes that deny Christ’s unconditional love for all people. While we do not condone the practice of homosexuality and consider such practice incompatible with Christian teaching and conduct, we believe God’s grace is available to all who repent.



To each of you who continually bless us by your encouragement, ministry participation, monthly financial support, offerings and prayers, we remain truly grateful. His Way Out Ministries is proclaiming to, educating, and impacting the world with the Biblical truth that freedom from homosexuality is possible when Jesus Christ is Lord of your life.

“Behold, we go up to Jerusalem,” (Luke 18:31) to fulfill God’s purpose, not our own.

For King and Kingdom,



Craig Fulwyler
Executive Board President
His Way Out Ministries

His Way Out Ministries Podcasts are dedicated to equipping, educating, and encouraging the Body of Christ to reach out and minister to individuals, families, and churches impacted by the brokenness of same-sex attraction.

Pastor Phillip Lee & Pastor Joel Splawn

Season 5, Episode 4
Pastor Phillip Lee and special guest Pastor Joel Splawn, Senior Pastor, Kern Christian Church, Lake Isabella, CA.

Is there any allowance in Scripture for homosexual practice? If I disagree with homosexual practice does that make me a bigot, hateful, or homophobic? Is change possible for the homosexual? How should a pastor lead his congregation to effectively love homosexuals? There was a time when objective moral truth was acknowledged in America as something that could be found in, and drawn from the Bible.

Pastor Joel also shares in great detail his own battle with same-sex attraction and how powerfully God moved in his life enabling him to be an overcomer.

Listen online or download the podcast.

In Truth and Love with Joel Splawn pt1
– Download MP3 –

There is no doubt many Christians have been strongly influenced by the continuous parade of positive media representations of homosexuality.

It does “seem” that people today increasingly approve of homosexuality as a valid life option for friends and family members. But is that truly the case?

Both condemning and endorsing homosexuality miss the mark. A huge and significant shift needs to take place. The question is, “Are we willing to turn that high-powered perception upon ourselves and ask ourselves some very hard questions?”

• Are we willing to take responsibility for harsh words or inappropriate actions and apologize for any wrongs we may have committed out of ignorance?

• Are we willing to share the Scriptural truths about homosexuality such as: No one is born with same-sex attraction and change is possible?

• Do we truly see ourselves as God’s vehicle to reach wounded, broken, hurting humanity – which includes the sexually and relationally broken?

• Are we truly willing to educate ourselves on the complexities of same-sex attraction thereby dismantling the many lies and replacing them with the Scriptural truths about homosexuality?

In other words, might we become much more proactive in educating and equipping ourselves regarding true Christian ministry to those with unwanted same-sex attraction?

In doing so, we would move from the defense mode of the past several decades to reversing the current tide through understanding and education.

According to Scripture, there can never be any justification for treating homosexuality as morally equivalent to heterosexuality. That said, we are being asked to lower the bar on the clarity of Scripture with regard to homosexual practice which ultimately means faithful followers of Christ Jesus are being asked to set themselves in direct opposition to moral values clearly outlined in God’s Word.

Today, as the saying goes, “The ball is squarely in our court.” We cannot and must not underestimate ourselves. We hold the only answer there is to the crisis of homosexuality.

In other words, “Are we willing to be the change we wish to see in the world?”

If we truly desire to see current trends change regarding homosexuality and the many related issues, our response requires a combination of compassion and understanding. Scripture is abundantly clear in that homosexual practice is only one of the many types of behavior condemned in the Bible. Therefore, to condemn homosexuality really is an expression of compassion because it seeks to warn, if not rescue those snared by the brokenness of same-sex attraction.

I still believe in and have every confidence in the Church’s ability, through Christ, to lovingly communicate to the sexually broken that God’s mercy and grace are sufficient for transformation.

The key is education, education, education! We are all in this work together through Christ!

May God help us on that day when we are asked to give an account of how we responded to the difficult issue of homosexuality so that we might hear Him say, “Well done, good and faithful servant.” Matthew 25:21

Pastor Phillip Lee
Executive Director
His Way Out Ministries

His Way Out has been faithfully ministering to men and women seeking a way out of sexually broken lifestyles since 1994. We could not do it without the support of Christians like you. Every dollar that you give to His Way Out Ministries helps to further this vital ministry. Won’t you take a minute to prayerfully consider a monthly donation to His Way Out? Please consider making a one-time donation or set up a secure monthly PayPal contribution on our donation page at https://www.hiswayout.com/donate/. Thank you, Pastor Phillip Lee

His Way Out Ministries Podcasts are dedicated to equipping, educating, and encouraging the Body of Christ to reach out and minister to individuals, families, and churches impacted by the brokenness of same-sex attraction.

Pastor Phillip Lee & Pastor Joel Splawn

Season 5, Episode 3
Pastor Phillip Lee and special guest Pastor Joel Splawn, Senior Pastor, Kern Christian Church, Lake Isabella, CA.

Pastor Joel speaks to the brokenness of same-sex attraction from a personal perspective having been raised in a Christian family environment and church. We also discuss: Is there any allowance in Scripture for homosexual practice? Is change possible for the homosexual? If we disagree with homosexual practice does that make us hateful, a bigot, and homophobic?

Listen online or download the podcast.

Are Christians Exempt with Joel Splawn
– Download MP3 –

You are sitting in church, listening to your pastor.

You are following along and taking notes on the very relevant topic of same-sex attraction because what is being shared is not only relevant to our culture but to you personally.

Sitting in church surrounded by fellow believers you are pretty comfortable and content.

But now, you have the task if not the monumental challenge of facing the son or daughter that sees nothing wrong with homosexual practice and is involved in a same-sex relationship.

You are now the one that gets to flesh out the truth you now know. How is that done? What do you do? What don’t you do?

What does representing Christ Jesus in this matter look like?

First and foremost, let’s put even this crisis in it’s proper context. Embrace the promise of Romans 8:28 that God makes everything – even calamities – work for our good.

• My first encouragement is learn as much as you can about the causes of homosexuality. Simply knowing it is wrong is not even close to being enough.

• Don’t run the matter into the ground every time you see your son or daughter. Often, there can be a good reason(s) for not dealing with a problem right now.

• Do everything you can to keep the lines of communication open and maintain your relationship. If you feel you have been batting your head against the wall seeking resolution of ‘the problem,’ take a rest. It may not be God’s time to deal with the issue.

• Make sure your son or daughter is aware of your belief and position regarding homosexual practice. Heaven knows, God can deal with and use our mistakes but He cannot deal with our inaction. Be clear and precise.

• Do not argue about homosexuality. The very moment the conversation erupts into anger – drop it! Badgering will only produce pushing the individual the wrong direction. Many problems and issues in life are often solved very indirectly; not when we are consciously dealing with them, but when we are going about our normal lives.

• It is imperative to distinguish between “acceptance and approval.” It is important to separate, both in our own minds and to our loved ones, their individual worth from the acts of homosexuality they may be committing.

• Stay completely away from Christian cliches such as: “God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve” and “Love the sinner but hate the sin.” Christian cliches only reinforce the belief of many with same-sex attraction that the Christian community is unwilling to truly educate themselves on the complexities of same-sex attraction.

• Do not hesitate to admit when and where the Church has been wrong with regard to men and women with same-sex attraction. We, the Church, have made mistakes and in some cases owe the gay community an apology.

• Refrain from attacking the character of homosexuals when discussing homosexuality. Keep to the real issue: “The real issue is whether or not homosexual practice is, in and of itself, moral.”

• Do not be discouraged if your conversations do not produce instant fruit. What we will answer to God for is speaking truth lovingly and plainly – not for how our loved one responds.

• Be relentless in looking for every opportunity to share it is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and the indwelling presence of His Spirit which is the foundation needed to overcome same-sex attraction.

• Release control. Let God decide how to bring freedom. God is the only One who can bring about change in the homosexual.

• Let the son, daughter and everyone know that God has a reputation of transforming trapped people with damaged sexualities. “And such were some of you” applies to all Christians who had formerly participated in homosexuality. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

• And, remember, those entangled in sin, of course, will have weak faith, so be merciful to those who doubt. (Jude 22)

Somewhere I read, “Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well, but the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out.

”When Jesus Christ is “there,” life has infinite possibilities.

Pastor Phillip Lee
Executive Director
His Way Out Ministries

His Way Out has been faithfully ministering to men and women seeking a way out of sexually broken lifestyles since 1994. We could not do it without the support of Christians like you. Every dollar that you give to His Way Out Ministries helps to further this vital ministry. Won’t you take a minute to prayerfully consider a monthly donation to His Way Out? Please consider making a one-time donation or set up a secure monthly PayPal contribution on our donation page at https://www.hiswayout.com/donate/. Thank you, Pastor Phillip Lee

Each Saturday morning beginning at 7:30am (PST) on KERI 1410AM, and live streamed at www.wilkinsradio.com, His Way Out Ministries offers a 30-minute broadcast dedicated to equipping, educating, and encouraging the Body of Christ to reach out and minister to individuals, families, and churches impacted by the brokenness of same-sex attraction.

Season 5, Episode 10
Special Guest: Pastor Brandon Holthaus, Senior Pastor, Rock Harbor Church, Bakersfield, CA.

“The Church must be reminded that it is not the master or the servant of the state, but rather the conscience of the state. It must be the guide and the critic of the state, and never its tool. If the Church does not recapture its prophetic zeal, it will become an irrelevant social club without moral or spiritual authority.” Martin Luther King Jr.

Listen online or download the podcast.

The Conscience of the State with Brandon Holthaus
– Download MP3 –

Pastor Phillip Lee & Pastor Brandon Holthaus

Speaking as one that spent 17 years in the formidable gay communities of Los Angeles, New York City and San Francisco, I know all too well there are radical gay-identified men and women who will not listen to anything the Christian community has to say.

Their ears are closed and their hearts have become so completely hardened that nothing Christians say will make a difference. Many have completely severed any and all bridges of communication, except for name-calling.

However, there remain men and women practicing homosexuality who would walk away from it if they thought they really could. Having bought into the notion of “once gay, always gay” as I did for many years, they still experience a sense of the wrongness of what they are doing but feel completely trapped with no way out.

To be frank, these are the men and women we have often failed, many of whom are in our churches.

Again, speaking from years of living as a gay-identified man, many in the gay community are hurting because they, just as I did, compulsively act out behavior to mask and cover pain.

Too often, we the Christian community, have failed to draw a distinction between the radical gay community and the individuals sitting in church who might be confused about their gender. Or between gay activists and the son or daughter who has adopted the gay identity but still is looking for a way out.

Please know and understand the radical gay community, gay activists in particular, do not speak for all gay-identified men and women. Frankly, gay activists often, very often, give the gay community a very bad rap.

My point?

We, the Christian community, we do not like it when others paint us with a big brush, let’s not do the same with the gay community.

Draw a clear distinction between the radical gay agenda and the men and women with unwanted same-sex attraction who are seeking help and hope.

The first word from the Church to the gay community should be that we ourselves need repentance.

Pastor Phillip Lee
Executive Director
His Way Out Ministries

His Way Out has been faithfully ministering to men and women seeking a way out of sexually broken lifestyles since 1994. We could not do it without the support of Christians like you. Every dollar that you give to His Way Out Ministries helps to further this vital ministry. Won’t you take a minute to prayerfully consider a monthly donation to His Way Out? Please consider making a one-time donation or set up a secure monthly PayPal contribution on our donation page at https://www.hiswayout.com/donate/. Thank you, Pastor Phillip Lee

Each Saturday morning beginning at 7:30am (PST) on KERI 1410AM, and live streamed at www.wilkinsradio.com, His Way Out Ministries offers a 30-minute broadcast dedicated to equipping, educating, and encouraging the Body of Christ to reach out and minister to individuals, families, and churches impacted by the brokenness of same-sex attraction.

Season 5, Episode 9
Special Guest: Don Clark

Don was my very first guest when we began the His Way Out Ministries Broadcast in March of 2017. I am grateful to Don for discussing with me and upholding the fact that objective moral truth can still be found in and drawn from the Bible.

Listen online or download the podcast.

Objective Moral Truth with Don Clark
– Download MP3 –

Pastor Phillip Lee & Don Clark

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