His Way Out Ministries Podcasts are dedicated to equipping, educating, and encouraging the Body of Christ to reach out and minister to individuals, families, and churches impacted by the brokenness of same-sex attraction.

Author Carol Wagstaff

Season 4, Episode 4
Join Pastor Phillip Lee and his special guest Carol Wagstaff, Founder of Living Stones Ministries and author of the new book Reclaim, Restore and Rebuild: Hope for Families Impacted by Sexual Brokenness.

Carol shares how homosexuality impacted her marriage which leads to a discussion of topics such as:

• What does it mean to speak the truth in love?
• Why we must be very careful to distinguish between homosexual attraction versus homosexual practice.
• What are some of the boundaries Christian parents must set?
• Homosexuality always seems to be someone else’s problem until it knocks on your front door.
• The role of the Church to those with unwanted same-sex attraction.

If sexual brokenness – homosexuality or transgenderism – has touched your family, you’re on a painful and challenging journey. But you’re not alone.

Listen online or download the podcast.

The Impact of Homosexuality on Christian Families with Carol Wagstaff pt1 – Download MP3 –

All past episodes of His Way Out Ministries Radio Broadcast are available by following THIS LINK or selecting the “Audio Podcast” category to the right.

Today, for some people, morality has become purely a matter of personal taste. Regarding sexual expression, opinions vary on how best to attain fulfillment, and in the thinking of many people, these differences are nothing more than opinions. From this perspective, regardless of one’s personal view or opinion on sexual expression, sex outside of marriage between one man and one woman or remaining celibate as a single man or woman, has been reduced to a matter of personal preference or expression. It escapes many people today that it is both illogical and inconsistent to believe that morality is purely subjective.

What we really should be asking ourselves is, “Are the qualities or consequences of sex outside of marriage beneficial or detrimental to individuals and to society?” The question is neither political nor religious. Even if Democrats, Republicans, or The Church were silent on the subject, we would still need to ask whether sex outside of marriage is right or wrong. Ultimately, when the moral question is in focus, a number of other matters become irrelevant.

Whether or not sexual expression outside of marriage is good, and therefore, whether it ought to be socially accepted, has nothing to do with its legality or its political correctness. What matters morally should be determined on the basis of our best understanding of what constitutes human well-being.

Therefore, the issue before us is whether or not people’s lives are better – physically, psychologically, and socially, as a result of sex outside marriage between one man and one woman. Today, in American society, the quest to gain society’s stamp of approval on any type or form of sexual expression is relentless. What this amounts to is a society in which a majority of people will, in turn, lose the right to freedom of conscience, which in this case means the right to withhold affirmation and teaching and the right to believe that any form of sexual expression is not on par with the marriage bond between one man and one woman.

Given the current political climate, we find it difficult to understand and believe that sexual education can be correctly and collectively taught apart from a moral context. When the moral question has been offered and answered, then, and only then, can we truly deal with the moral decay that exists in American society and the world?

Pastor Phillip Lee
Executive Director
His Way Out Ministries

His Way Out has been faithfully ministering to men and women seeking a way out of sexually broken lifestyles since 1994. We could not do it without the support of Christians like you. Every dollar that you give to His Way Out Ministries helps to further this vital ministry. Won’t you take a minute to prayerfully consider a monthly donation to His Way Out? Please consider making a one-time donation or set up a secure monthly PayPal contribution on our donation page at https://www.hiswayout.com/donate/. Thank you, Pastor Phillip Lee

His Way Out Ministries Podcasts are dedicated to equipping, educating, and encouraging the Body of Christ to reach out and minister to individuals, families, and churches impacted by the brokenness of same-sex attraction.

Phillip Lee and Brandon Holthaus

Season 5, Episode 10
Special Guest: Pastor Brandon Holthaus, Senior Pastor, Rock Harbor Church, Bakersfield, CA.

“The Church must be reminded that it is not the master or the servant of the state, but rather the conscience of the state. It must be the guide and the critic of the state, and never its tool. If the Church does not recapture its prophetic zeal, it will become an irrelevant social club without moral or spiritual authority.” Martin Luther King Jr.

Listen online or download the podcast.

The Conscience of the State with Brandon Holthaus
– Download MP3 –

All past episodes of His Way Out Ministries Radio Broadcast are available by following THIS LINK or selecting the “Audio Podcast” category to the right.

A popular error that continues to be made by many is the attempt to blur the lines with regard to Christian ethics by making “love” an omnipotent spiritual quality that has the power to validate anything that is done in its name. Under this particular line of thinking, one could justify any type of sexual relationship, including those considered unacceptable and incompatible with Christian teaching and conduct.

However, Jesus Himself tells us clearly, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” (John 14:15, 15:10; Matthew 19:17) The unfortunate and misleading view that “love” in and of itself validates behavior, has led many to confuse compassion with acceptance of homosexuality.

In the face of a very long list of challenges regarding homosexual practice versus The Authority of Scripture, there are those quick to point out that Jesus Himself never addressed the issue. That said, the error of such logic can easily be demonstrated. Jesus did not directly condemn incest or bestiality. Can we, therefore, consider such practices to be acceptable? While Jesus did not directly talk about homosexual practice in any form or to any degree, He clearly affirmed the Genesis teaching on the matter of human sexuality. Jesus declared the marriage covenant between man and woman as an unalterable and sacred union. (Matthew 19:4-6)

Those attempting to revise Scripture and trump biblical injunctions against homosexual practice avoid one clear and central theme throughout Scripture – the symbolism of marriage itself. As Paul states in Ephesians 5:31-32, “For this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. This is a great mystery, and I am applying it to Christ and the Church.” Homosexual acts, of any kind or to any degree, are undeniably incompatible with the marriage covenant.

Indeed, God is love – absolutely. But true love has boundaries that protect, guide, and show concern for its recipients. Ultimately, showing support for, and more importantly, standing upon The Authority of Scripture “for marriage between one man and one woman” is not intolerant. If so, then nature itself would be intolerant. Marriage was established by God Himself and as a result, cannot be redefined by each new generation.

These are perilous times for The Church with regard to homosexuality and the many related issues. Far too much of man’s wisdom now prevails with far too much of God’s wisdom and truth being rewritten and discarded. Today, thankfully, the majority of Christian churches in America continue to view homosexual practice as outside the realm of appropriate Christian conduct.

At His Way Out Ministries, we believe wholeheartedly in the infallibility and Authority of Scripture. His Way Out Ministries balances truth about homosexuality with the compassion of God for homosexual people as revealed through both His Word and His Son.

Nevertheless, the battles continue, as those endeavoring to promote homosexuality seem unwilling to concede any ground, at times defying biblical standards. Therefore, His Way Out Ministries remains dedicated to raising awareness, educating, and encouraging the Body of Christ to minister to those who struggle with homosexuality while being centered on the biblical foundations of compassion, integrity, and dependence on God.

Pastor Phillip Lee
Executive Director
His Way Out Ministries

His Way Out has been faithfully ministering to men and women seeking a way out of sexually broken lifestyles since 1994. We could not do it without the support of Christians like you. Every dollar that you give to His Way Out Ministries helps to further this vital ministry. Won’t you take a minute to prayerfully consider a monthly donation to His Way Out? Please consider making a one-time donation or set up a secure monthly PayPal contribution on our donation page at https://www.hiswayout.com/donate/. Thank you, Pastor Phillip Lee

His Way Out Ministries Podcasts are dedicated to equipping, educating, and encouraging the Body of Christ to reach out and minister to individuals, families, and churches impacted by the brokenness of same-sex attraction.

Phillip Lee and Brandon Holthaus

Season 3, Episode 11
Pastor Phillip Lee continues his discussion with Pastor Brandon Holthaus, Senior Pastor of Rock Harbor Church here in Bakersfield.

We must respond with unconditional love to individuals dealing with same-sex attraction, while at the same time, unwavering in our loyalty to God’s Word. It is imperative the Church affirm and defend the Lordship of Christ and the Authority of Scripture.

Listen online or download the podcast.

Acceptance and Approval with Brandon Holthaus pt2 – Download MP3 –

All past episodes of His Way Out Ministries Radio Broadcast are available by following THIS LINK or selecting the “Audio Podcast” category to the right.

Admittedly, I offer the following at the risk of being accused of “church bashing.” Therefore, let me state at the beginning, church bashing is never appropriate at any time or on any level. That said, there are some things that need to be voiced given the on-going crisis the Church faces today with regard to homosexuality and related issues.

To date, the pro-gay agenda has more than accomplished everything they have set out to accomplish. In many respects it is as though the gay community has come fully and completely out of the closet with the Church running into the closet and taking up comfortable residency.

The spiritual apathy within the Church regarding homosexuality and gay rights has all but taken on the appearance and posture of attempting to please everyone by traveling down the “middle of the road.” Today, many Christians have labeled themselves moderates and unwilling to take a stand on much of anything. We must examine our hearts with regard to the crisis of homosexuality in the Church. If we truly pride ourselves on not being fearful, not being antigay, and not being gay rights promoters, but rather middle-of-the-roaders, then I submit we must ask ourselves whether or not we have a passion for ministry based on a burning love for Jesus. I remain convinced if the Church remains all but apathetic and complacent regarding what seems to be a growing acceptance of homosexuality in the Church, we need to ask for a considerable fresh dose of God’s Spirit of conviction until our passion is reignited.

The Church is in great peril regarding homosexuality. Today, far too much of God’s wisdom has been pushed out and now man’s wisdom is doing it’s utmost to prevail. How is it the Church is no longer setting societal standards but is conforming more and more to the standards of popular culture?

As representatives, Ambassadors for Christ, do we not have a responsibility to preserve our freedoms and stand for Christ, witnessing to His grace and power? Those of us who have experienced Christ’s healing and transformation power in our lives have a responsibility to bring His power to a society, a world, a Church that has too often jumped to a conclusion that there is no cure for the ills that exist regarding same-gender attraction.

The churches to which Peter wrote were all but monuments of dedication to righteousness in a sea of paganism. Peter encouraged the churches with these words, “Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when His glory is revealed. If you are insulted because of the Name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you” (1 Peter 4:12-14).

All of us at His Way Out Ministries fully admit that combating what seems to be a growing acceptance of homosexuality is a considerable challenge. However, at His Way Out Ministries, we are unwavering in our belief that the reason God birthed His Church, the reason God has anointed His Church, and the reason God continues to build His Church, is that He intended His Church from the beginning to be the answer to life’s challenges which includes the issue of same-gender attraction.

Do we, the Church, still believe that God can do the impossible? The Church has become far too fractured regarding homosexuality with viewpoints differing widely. Far too often the person struggling with homosexuality is often completely confused about the Christian viewpoint on homosexuality. Those who struggle with homosexuality need to be loved, to be embraced in fellowship, to become known for whom they really are, not based on sexuality as much as on interests and personality.

What about the unreached homosexual population? I am confident the Church realizes the need to bring the Gospel to every tribe, tongue, language, and nation – to touch and reach every culture. What about gay culture?

There is no doubt we, the Church, have a lot to learn about bringing Jesus to the gays and lesbians who knock at the doors of our churches. We, the Church, must not underestimate ourselves. We, the Church, hold the only answer there is to the present and on-going crisis of homosexuality. God Himself desires to reach homosexual people. Church is where healing and wholeness occurs. When we, the Church, embrace the truth and totality of Scripture as it relates to homosexuality without compromise and show unconditional love without fail, Jesus Christ becomes apparent in our midst, and He empowers us to walk in His purposes.

We, the Church, must call fear, complacency and neglect exactly what it is – a barrier to accomplishing God’s will for our lives and for His Church. Paul reminded Timothy that he was not given a spirit of fear- neither are we (2 Timothy 1:7).

Is it possible if we, The Church, humble ourselves, weep and lament for our nation, the world regarding homosexuality, God may just yet intervene and restore decency to this crazy world? If we are unwilling to weep before God with regard to the many that have been ensnared by homosexuality, are we then truly fit to fight before men? I’m just asking. Maybe before God changes the minds of those embracing the “gay is good” notion, He will begin by changing our hearts.

Pastor Phillip Lee
Executive Director
His Way Out Ministries

His Way Out has been faithfully ministering to men and women seeking a way out of sexually broken lifestyles since 1994. We could not do it without the support of Christians like you. Every dollar that you give to His Way Out Ministries helps to further this vital ministry. Won’t you take a minute to prayerfully consider a monthly donation to His Way Out? Please consider making a one-time donation or set up a secure monthly PayPal contribution on our donation page at https://www.hiswayout.com/donate/. Thank you, Pastor Phillip Lee

His Way Out Ministries Podcasts are dedicated to equipping, educating, and encouraging the Body of Christ to reach out and minister to individuals, families, and churches impacted by the brokenness of same-sex attraction.

Phillip Lee and Brandon Holthaus

Season 3, Episode 10
Pastor Phillip Lee is joined by his special guest Pastor Brandon Holthaus, Senior Pastor of Rock Harbor Church here in Bakersfield.

A church is a family, with all of its diversity, and no two churches are exactly the same. Today, when it comes to the subject of homosexuality, congregations appear to be all over the map. Gay affirming, fearful, gay bashing, and complacent churches, as well as churches that are still sold out to Christ’s way. Why do you suppose the Church has become so diverse on this matter?

Listen online or download the podcast.

Acceptance and Approval with Brandon Holthaus pt1 – Download MP3 –

All past episodes of His Way Out Ministries Radio Broadcast are available by following THIS LINK or selecting the “Audio Podcast” category to the right.

Frankly, the question shows a certain misunderstanding and attempts once again to place those who struggle with same-gender attraction in a “category” all by themselves. Why should witnessing to gays be any different than witnessing to anyone else?

Ultimately, their homosexuality is not our main concern – or, at least, it should not be the primary concern. The state of their souls is. And if the Gospel is something they’re not interested in, we, The Church, needn’t feel obligated to argue over sexual matters with people who have no interest in such an argument. We see no reason why a Christian should automatically target a gay friend or co-worker as an object of reformation. “As much as possible,” Paul said, “live at peace with all men.” (Romans 12:18)

The Christian Church is perhaps the last organization that continues to promote values that forbid homosexual practice. Frankly, gay militants know that, and that makes The Church an important target. Heaven knows, there has been and there remain tactics specifically designed and intended to frighten The Church into either changing our views or never expressing them. If we allow ourselves to become so frightened, so intimidated, we will deserve the displeasure of God and the spiritual impotence we will surely find ourselves in.

However, history clearly shows that persecution has traditionally strengthened The Church. Maybe, just maybe, the onslaught of gay rights and gay militancy will unite The Church in ways unthinkable until now. Hmmm! What a concept.

The Church remains the Body of Christ. It has a message of redemption that can come from nowhere else. It is also, the last hope and refuge for the homosexual struggler. How do you witness to a gay-identified person? Remember, the goal of The Church is not to make “straights out of gays.” It is to preach the Gospel, and there’s no reason or exception to that rule.

Pastor Phillip Lee
Executive Director
His Way Out Ministries

Please consider making a donation at www.hiswayout.com/donate. Thank you, Pastor Phillip Lee