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His Way Out Ministries Podcasts are dedicated to equipping, educating, and encouraging the Body of Christ to reach out and minister to individuals, families, and churches impacted by the brokenness of same-sex attraction.

Clayton Ford

Season 4, Episode 2
Join Pastor Phillip Lee and his special guest Dr. Clayton Ford, Interim Pastor of Chinese Community Church, San Diego, CA, author of Called to High Adventure: Living the Spirit-Filled Life

Pastor Phillip and Dr. Ford question how we arrived at a point where same-sex marriage is legal throughout America? Did we, the Church, contribute to a cultural vacuum by offering very little resistance? How did we arrive at a point where a popular error in the Church is the attempt to blur the lines of Christian ethics, making the term “Love” an omnipotent spiritual quality which has the power to validate anything done in its name.

Listen online or download the podcast.

Representing the Culture or Representing Christ with Clayton Ford pt1 – Download MP3 –

All past episodes of His Way Out Ministries Radio Broadcast are available by following THIS LINK or selecting the “Audio Podcast” category to the right.

Frankly, sometimes we over-spiritualize things when what really needs to be done is “take some practical steps.” With any obsessive or addictive behavior, a person must want to change before permanent healing or restoration can take place. God, indeed, will give you the strength you need, when you need it. But it all revolves around the intimacy that you develop with Him and the diligence and hunger with which you pursue Him.

When you begin to develop an intimate relationship with God, He will begin to speak to you through inner impressions and sometimes through a small still voice that seems to go directly into your heart and mind without the benefit of your ears. Sometimes God will cause you to hear the same message over and over, or even have a number of people come up to you and share the same thing about something that is appropriate to what has recently been on your heart and in your prayers.

If you are seeking freedom from any heterosexual sexual addiction or same-gender attraction, God will no doubt point out certain places, people, and activities that He wants you to eliminate and avoid. When you find yourself being sexually stimulated, stop and ask God what it was that caused it and how you can avoid it next time.

If pornography has been part of your problem, God will undoubtedly require you to destroy it and not buy any more. But He may also tell you to avoid magazine racks and even driving down streets where they are located. At least until you have become strong enough to resist such temptations and enticements.

Don’t be surprised if God tells you not to buy certain magazines, even “socially acceptable” ones, like store catalogs, knowing that most of your time is spent gazing at the good looking men and women rather than the clothes. God may tell you not to rent or view certain videos or even watch television shows (you know…the ones that emphasize your former heartthrobs.)

The Lord may tell you to no longer drive in neighborhoods or frequent places where you used to go to stare at the “beautiful people.” He may tell you to forget about the gym or the health spa.

This is a hard one: God may tell you to give up certain friends…people who He knows will only pull you back into bondage or in some way impede your healing. You must trust God knows exactly what He is doing. As you know, the list is endless of ways and places that serve to bring subtle and overt temptation. Who knows? God knows. Listen to Him.
The greatest danger you face is your tendency to forge ahead of God to conquer these things by yourself. That is a big mistake and you will probably fall flat on your face if you try it. Save yourself a lot of time, effort, and grief. Wait on the Lord to tell you when and how to deal with the various components of your situation. “Unless the Lord builds the house, they labor in vain who build it.” (Psalm 127:1) Jesus Christ is the only One in this world or any other who will ever be worthy of glory or praise, and for anyone of us to act outside of His direction is a subtle but arrogant challenge to that fact.

Practical Steps to Restoration and Recovery

  • Set your heart and mind against the old sin-bred patterns of thinking, feeling, and doing, and toward a love of purity. “Worship the Lord in the splendor of His holiness.” (Psalm 29:2)
  • Starve the old nature to death! Avoid the people, places, and things that God reveals as feeding troughs for your sin nature. “By the leading of the Spirit, put to death the misdeeds of the body.” (Romans 8:13)
  • Frequent men’s/women’s fellowship groups in addition to regular church services so that you can receive the kind of healthy support, modeling, and acceptance that has been missing in your life. “Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another – and all the more as you see the Day approaching.” (Hebrews 10:25)
  • Find someone with whom you can be accountable. “Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.” (James 5:16)
  • Increase the amount of time you spend seeking God in prayer and crying out to Him for help. “God rewards those who diligently seek Him.” (Hebrews 11:6)

Let God build a new man/woman in you and let Him receive all the glory!

Pastor Phillip Lee
Executive Director
His Way Out Ministries

His Way Out has been faithfully ministering to men and women seeking a way out of sexually broken lifestyles since 1994. We could not do it without the support of Christians like you. Every dollar that you give to His Way Out Ministries helps to further this vital ministry. Won’t you take a minute to prayerfully consider a monthly donation to His Way Out? Please consider making a one-time donation or set up a secure monthly PayPal contribution on our donation page at https://www.hiswayout.com/donate/. Thank you, Pastor Phillip Lee

His Way Out Ministries Podcasts are dedicated to equipping, educating, and encouraging the Body of Christ to reach out and minister to individuals, families, and churches impacted by the brokenness of same-sex attraction.

Phillip Lee & Tem Mattox

Season 2, Episode 16
Once again, Pastor Tem Mattox, Senior Pastor of Northside Community Church here in Bakersfield joins Pastor Phillip Lee to continue their discussion on the topic, “When the culture moves, should the church move with it?”

Listen online or download the podcast.

The Church and Popular Culture with Tem Mattox pt2 – Download MP3 –

All past episodes of His Way Out Ministries Radio Broadcast are available by following THIS LINK or selecting the “Audio Podcast” category to the right.

Today, in America, very little is being offered which promotes the truth about homosexuality and the general public is slowly but certainly beginning to believe the many untruths and inaccuracies being offered. This did not happen by accident.

An article titled, “Finding ways to love in a time of hatred”, was offered in our local newspaper. Admittedly, as one that left homosexuality over 30 years ago, I have personally experienced many positive terms that have been corrupted and negative terminology about those disagreeing with the normality and practice of homosexuality as well. However, to equate “disagreeing” with homosexuality as “hating” is a huge inaccuracy and at the least flawed reporting.

Today, many terms are being played up by those promoting homosexual practice to cast a negative light on anyone questioning homosexuality and gay rights. How is it that no words are used to explain that those opposed to homosexuality actually care about the people involved, and ‘hate’ is the furthest thing from being a motivating factor?

As one that spent 17 years as a gay-identified man, I simply want the false glamor and lies to be stripped away from homosexuality, one of which is that objecting to homosexuality means that one is intolerant, bigoted, homophobic, and hateful. These words utilized by the pro-gay agenda have become far too convenient and are clearly being relentlessly offered to promote a one-sided agenda which is being seductively pushed upon American society.

If words such as ‘love’ and ‘hate’ are going to be used, the burden of proof is on the individual or community to produce evidence. That said, to use the word ‘hate’ to define those objecting to homosexuality is a huge, sweeping generalization and far from being all-inclusive.

Pastor Phillip Lee
Executive Director
His Way Out Ministries

His Way Out has been faithfully ministering to men and women seeking a way out of sexually broken lifestyles since 1994. We could not do it without the support of Christians like you. Every dollar that you give to His Way Out Ministries helps to further this vital ministry. Won’t you take a minute to prayerfully consider a monthly donation to His Way Out? Please consider making a one-time donation or set up a secure monthly PayPal contribution on our donation page at https://www.hiswayout.com/donate/. Thank you, Pastor Phillip Lee

His Way Out Ministries Podcasts are dedicated to equipping, educating, and encouraging the Body of Christ to reach out and minister to individuals, families, and churches impacted by the brokenness of same-sex attraction.

Tem Mattox & Phillip Lee

Season 2, Episode 15
Pastor Tem Mattox, Senior Pastor of Northside Community Church here in Bakersfield joins Pastor Phillip Lee in a discussion on the topic, “When the culture moves, should the church move with it?”

Listen online or download the podcast.

The Church and Popular Culture with Tem Mattox pt1 – Download MP3 –

All past episodes of His Way Out Ministries Radio Broadcast are available by following THIS LINK or selecting the “Audio Podcast” category to the right.

Today, within the Christian community, there is a great divide over homosexuality. While some in the Christian community state that homosexuality is an abomination and completely reject homosexual men and women, others believe homosexuality is wonderful and they encourage homosexual behavior. Those encouraging homosexual practices have all but reinvented theology with their newfound theology being “pro-gay theology.”

For the most part, those revising the Scriptures to support homosexual practice have largely revised certain passages in light of “new” scientific evidence. Such as, ‘we now understand that people are born homosexual, and therefore we should endorse both homosexual behavior and relationships.’ Any attempt to state the Scriptures clearly communicate homosexual men and women are born that way is a blatant misuse and contradiction of Scripture.

Frankly, any endorsement or condemnation of homosexuality misses the mark entirely. Today, the Church is in desperate need of clarifying its view of the individual struggling with same-gender attraction and offering a statement such as:

If you experience same-gender attraction, God loves you and we love you. You are welcome to Church. We do not approve of homosexual behavior, just as we do not approve of any sexual behavior outside of marriage. We know that you were not born with same-gender attraction. Even if that is what you have been led to believe, it is not factual. We embrace all people. You are welcome in our church.

Today, while many church and denominational doctrines still teach and promote the biblical view of sexuality – marriage is meant for one man and one woman, and all sex outside of marriage is incompatible with Christian teaching and conduct – others are lowering the bar and conforming to a rapidly changing social trend of the acceptance of homosexuality and incorporating those beliefs into church doctrine. Revising theology on the topic of homosexuality has become fashionable citing ‘old ways are not applicable to new understandings; therefore we must conform to a more modern view.’

Many churches and denominations have thankfully repented of their harsh treatment of homosexuals but have also allowed the pendulum to swing to the opposite extreme – acceptance of both sin and sinner. How is it that today many just find it easier to go to the extreme left or right, rather than committing to finding a Biblical resolution to the crisis we face regarding homosexuality and related issues? As a result, the divide that most definitely exists within the Church regarding homosexuality continues to grow. If you are not condemning then you are immediately put in the liberal camp. Very few churches have yet to realize there is another way. Neither condemnation nor acceptance of their sin is helpful to the person caught in the dilemma of same-gender attraction. The way out of the intense battle of homosexuality is often a long process which most definitely requires love, understanding, and discipleship from and by the Church.

Having once sat on the other side of the fence (gay is good), I can personally attest to the fact and reality the Church has treated homosexual persons abominably. In many, many respects, we the Church owe the gay community an enormous apology. That said, instead of repenting to the gay community, many churches and denominations are throwing the baby out with the bathwater by revising theology without truly understanding what drives homosexual behavior.

Instead of taking advantage of becoming educated about same-gender attraction, they are succumbing to political pressure and giving in to social trends by endorsing homosexual behavior. The bottom line – everyone loses! While an abundance of homosexual men and women think they are finally getting what they want and deserve, will this tactic truly give them what they need?

While I have stated it before, I believe it needs repeating – The Church must not underestimate itself, it holds the only answer there is to this difficult issue. While we continue to say that God can do the impossible, do we still believe it?

Ultimately, by pursuing acceptance through revising theology on homosexuality, special legislation and the relentless spin on homosexuality by the media, men and women struggling with homosexuality and lesbianism will never, ever experience the love and peace they so desperately seek and deserve.

There is no doubt homosexual activists have devised a brilliant strategic plan to gain greater and greater acceptance. Much of the plan has been based upon and remains based upon ‘that they were born with same-gender attraction and change is not possible.’ Tragically, the strategy has and is working.

We can and we must reverse current trends regarding homosexuality through education and understanding. Indeed, acceptance is a vital issue to all people and we must be accepting of the wounded person, but we can never accept a theology or a way of life that flies in the face of God’s Word. Frankly, to lack compassion in this area is to be out of step with God.

We cannot and we must not allow any misguided desire to extend mercy to potentially cause us, The Church, to surrender our right to judge right from wrong. It is time to bring understanding and clarity to the issue of homosexuality. It is only through understanding and compassion that we can resolve the many controversies and confusion surrounding homosexuality. It is up to you and me to reach out in love realizing the homosexual issue will never be solved by politics, science, or the media.

Ultimately, revising theology to support or endorse homosexual behavior in any form or to any degree minimizes The Church as the last bastion of hope to the homosexual struggler.

From All of Us at His Way Out Ministries…

Today, confusion about sexuality, homosexuality in particular, is all too common. While some continue to say people are born gay, others say they are not. Thousand of men and women who were told they were homosexual have found the gay life to be less than satisfying. People desire and deserve godly answers to their questions.

To each of you who continually bless us by your encouragement, ministry participation, monthly financial support, offerings, and prayers…we remain truly grateful. His Way Out Ministries is proclaiming to, educating and impacting the world with the biblical truth that freedom from homosexuality is possible when Jesus Christ is Lord of your life!

Pastor Phillip Lee
Executive Director
His Way Out Ministries

His Way Out has been faithfully ministering to men and women seeking a way out of sexually broken lifestyles since 1994. We could not do it without the support of Christians like you. Every dollar that you give to His Way Out Ministries helps to further this vital ministry. Won’t you take a minute to prayerfully consider a monthly donation to His Way Out? Please consider making a one-time donation or set up a secure monthly PayPal contribution on our donation page at https://www.hiswayout.com/donate/. Thank you, Pastor Phillip Lee

His Way Out Ministries Podcasts are dedicated to equipping, educating, and encouraging the Body of Christ to reach out and minister to individuals, families, and churches impacted by the brokenness of same-sex attraction.

Season 5, Episode 6
Special Guest: Carol Wagstaff, author of Reclaim, Restore and Rebuild: Hope for Families Impacted by Sexual Brokenness available at Amazon.com.

Pastor Phillip and Carol discuss the challenges Bible-believing Christian parents face with a son or daughter that sees nothing wrong with homosexual practice.

Listen online or download the podcast.

Reclaim, Restore, Rebuild with Carol Wagstaff
– Download MP3 –

All past episodes of His Way Out Ministries Radio Broadcast are available by following THIS LINK or selecting the “Audio Podcast” category to the right.

Have we lost our focus and gotten off course a bit in largely producing “counseling and support group junkies” rather than disciples?

Today, it seems that many are viewing ex-gay ministries as out trying to catch people to de-program them from homosexual behavior. We need to be very clear when people are asking for help. It is imperative we all remember homosexuals are people like you and me – people God loves. How will they come to know God’s love if we, as His family, do not reach out to them? If we truly believe God has the power to change anything, we cannot withhold offering truth, hope, and healing through Christ Jesus. Personally, I believe the extension of His love comes about by and through discipleship.

Christian discipleship is exactly the same to the homosexual struggler as it is to any man or woman combating the very long list of habits, addictions, or various behaviors that impact lives. Christian discipleship is the process by which men and women (disciples) grow in the Lord Jesus Christ and are equipped by the Holy Spirit (who resides in our hearts), to overcome the pressures, trials, and temptations that manifest in our lives and become more and more Christ-like.

But how does that play out in the practical sense?

1. Jesus must be put first in all matters of life (Mark 8:34-38). The homosexual struggler must take a purposed and deliberate step to be set apart from the world. The individual’s focus must be on the Lord Jesus and pleasing Him in every area of life. In other words, put off self-centeredness and put on Christ-centeredness.

2. Follow all the teachings of Jesus (John 8:31-32). Our obedience to the Father must be like that of a child which enables our being doers of the Word. Obedience is the supreme test of faith in God (1 Samuel 28:18).

3. Expect change (John 15:5-8). As a disciple (even those that combat same-gender attraction), our job is to abide in Christ, and “if” we do, the Holy Spirit will produce change, with change being the result of our obedience. As we become more obedient to the Lord and purposed to walk in all of His ways, our lives change. The biggest change will take place in our hearts resulting in new conduct (thoughts, words, and actions), all being representative of “change.” Ultimately, the change we all seek in our lives occurs from the inside out, through the power of the Holy Spirit.

4. In love for other believers (disciples) (John 13:34-35). Clearly, from 1 John 3:10 and 1 Corinthians 13:1-13, we see that love is not just an emotion; it is an action. We must be doing something and involved in the process of discipleship. The attitude for the homosexual struggler as well as those desiring to help or minister to those combating same-gender attraction must be fueled by the motivation of ‘love.’ When it comes to the complexities of life (including homosexuality and related issues), our ‘attitude’ should be the same as that of Christ Jesus.

5. Making disciples of others (Matthew 28:18-20). Too often, the homosexual struggler and those that have left homosexuality are reluctant to share their faith and tell nonbelievers about the wonderful changes Jesus has made in their lives. No matter what our maturity level in Christian life, we have something to offer. Frankly, some of the most enthusiastic representatives of the Christian life are new believers who have just discovered the awesome love of God. While they may not know what they’re saying goodbye to “gay” fully means, they have experienced the love of God and want to share their new found lives and identify in Christ with others.

Admittedly, deliverance from homosexuality or any habit, addiction or compulsive behavior, for that matter, comes from a Person and not a method. That said, I am concerned we have gotten far away from the command and calling of our Lord to “disciple” – especially, to the homosexual struggler. Heaven knows, Christians throughout the ages have had sinful habits to overcome and misbeliefs to replace with truth. I submit that the same Christian ‘disciplines’ that have helped a multitude will also help those struggling with same-gender attraction. Maybe it’s time to return to the basics?

Pastor Phillip Lee
Executive Director
His Way Out Ministries

His Way Out has been faithfully ministering to men and women seeking a way out of sexually broken lifestyles since 1994. We could not do it without the support of Christians like you. Every dollar that you give to His Way Out Ministries helps to further this vital ministry. Won’t you take a minute to prayerfully consider a monthly donation to His Way Out? Please consider making a one-time donation or set up a secure monthly PayPal contribution on our donation page at https://www.hiswayout.com/donate/. Thank you, Pastor Phillip Lee

His Way Out Ministries Podcasts are dedicated to equipping, educating, and encouraging the Body of Christ to reach out and minister to individuals, families, and churches impacted by the brokenness of same-sex attraction.

Carol Wagstaff & Pastor Phillip Lee

Season 4, Episode 5
Pastor Phillip Lee continues his discussion with special guest Carol Wagstaff, Founder of Living Stones Ministries and author of the new book Reclaim, Restore and Rebuild: Hope for Families Impacted by Sexual Brokenness.

Carol shares how homosexuality impacted her marriage which leads to a discussion of topics such as:

  • What does it mean to speak the truth in love?
  • Why we must be very careful to distinguish between homosexual attraction versus homosexual practice.
  • What are some of the boundaries Christian parents must set?
  • Homosexuality always seems to be someone else’s problem until it knocks on your front door.
  • The role of the Church to those with unwanted same-sex attraction.

If sexual brokenness – homosexuality or transgenderism – has touched your family, you’re on a painful and challenging journey. But you’re not alone.

Listen online or download the podcast.

The Impact of Homosexuality on Christian Families with Carol Wagstaff pt2 – Download MP3 –

All past episodes of His Way Out Ministries Radio Broadcast are available by following THIS LINK or selecting the “Audio Podcast” category to the right.

For far too many, sexual and relational brokenness has meant shame, hiding, masks, and deception. Some even take pride in the ability to keep things under wraps, to keep feelings hidden, to go it alone. All of this allows a person to remain in denial. It enables many to convince themselves that they will never have to deal with the consequences of their actions.

We can only keep the truth at bay for so long. The time finally arrives when we can no longer hide the destructiveness of our lifestyle from ourselves. For many, we were being hurt and we were hurting others often in the name of love. Hiding only increased our sense of isolation while at the same time destroying our self-esteem. Ultimately, we realized that the secrets we were keeping us from the freedom we had, at last, recognized we must find.

What we need, if we are to recover, is unconditional love. Often, our duplicity made receiving such love impossible. To know that kind of love, we have to reveal ourselves – warts and all – to God, to ourselves, and to others. Confession is the key that turns the lock that keeps us isolated and vulnerable to sexual brokenness or any form of brokenness.

When you and I take a step-by-step moral inventory of ourselves, we will find things we need to confess. We must always begin with God because He is love and has promised to forgive and cleanse all who confess to Him (1 John 1:9).

When we accept God’s forgiveness, we become empowered to face ourselves in a new way. Knowing His forgiveness enables us to forgive others. Knowing His acceptance enables us to accept ourselves.

Now, all of that prepares us for a full and honest confession to another human being. This is vital if we are to break the patterns of dishonesty and isolation that have kept us from what we have craved all along. That unconditional love and acceptance can only come from one who knows all that we are and all that we have done.

The person to whom we make such a confession must be carefully chosen. Confession builds incredible intimacy, which is an important and vital part of recovery. A word to the wise: never, ever make your confession to someone to whom you are sexually attracted.

Confession is not an “X-rated” recounting of every sordid detail of your sexual misconduct, but rather an honest facing of character faults that made you defenseless against your own lusts. Also, confession is not a “blame game.” Nobody wins in the blame game. While our struggles came to us as a result of things that happened in our childhood, we are responsible for our responses to these things as adults. Confession means facing our own faults, not those of others.

Many, many years ago, at the very beginning of my discipleship, I hit a major wall. The wall had a definite name – Loneliness! Not truly desiring to face and deal with the underlying factors that were causing the loneliness; I contacted my pastor and began to share my grief. Really, all I wanted to do was whine. You know, the “Oh, poor me syndrome.” My pastor requested I meet him at the church for a more personal face-to-face conversation. I agreed. I arrived at the church before my pastor and positioned myself for my tale of woes.

Eventually, I heard my pastor pull into the church parking lot and he immediately proceeded to the sanctuary where I was waiting. He had no sooner stepped inside when out came the words, “Now, if you’ve got one good reason, I’m here to listen, but do not give me one excuse!” I still hear those words today. They were extremely authoritative and delivered with considerable volume. I was stunned and couldn’t say a word. After a few moments of silence and collecting my emotions, I realized that my pastor had told me exactly what I needed to know, but not necessarily what I wanted to hear. His words snapped me right into reality.

Frankly, I was cornered and now required to not only face but to acknowledge I had been giving my greater attention and energy to being successful rather than being obedient. Thank God for pastors who truly have our best interest at heart.

C.S. Lewis once wrote, “No amount of falls will really undo us if we keep picking ourselves up each time. We will, of course, be very muddy and tattered children by the time we reach home, but the bathrooms are ready, the towels put out and the clean clothes are waiting. The only fatal thing is to lose one’s temper and give up. It is when we notice the dirt, that God is present in us – it is the very sign of His presence.”

The Apostle Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 6:11, “You were sanctified,” or better translated, “are being sanctified.” Sanctification is that process where sin’s power is broken and we are separated unto God, enabling us to come into the wholeness Jesus promises.

Too often, when we think of salvation, we think of it in our initial choice to follow Jesus. But rarely do we view our salvation as a process, which entails many choices and a string of deliverances.

Healing or arriving at a place of wholeness does not mean nor has it ever meant an absence of struggle. Our humanity, out of which our sexuality flows, will continue to bear the mark of the fallen age in which we live. But that does not minimize God’s power. Experiencing temptation, feeling irrationally threatened, acknowledging the need for on-going accountability simply places each one of us in a dynamic process of becoming whole.

For example, while God was helping me deal with homosexual sin, miraculously, I was spared the painful recognition of my broken masculinity, which was undergirding my sinful behavior. As I learned what it meant to be a man, and more importantly, a godly man, my masculinity began to be healed. The Lord revealed broken and hurtful aspects of how I related to family, friends, and people in general. God is faithful to reveal what needs to be healed. He does so in light of how much we can handle at once. And, He always blesses obedience.

It’s not enough to experience victory in sexual struggles. You might be saying, “It’s not…why?” Because the victory will be very short-lived if we don’t understand the specific characteristic of God on which that victory is built. God wants us to know Him and trust His character and not just use Him as a means to escape having to take responsibility for our choices. To say that Christian love is unconditional is not to say that it does not encourage the one loved to do what is right. It is to say that Christian love continues even when that person fails to do what is right.

God help us to be encouraging rather than demanding. In doing so, may many understand that obedience, not success, is your will and desire.

Pastor Phillip Lee
Executive Director
His Way Out Ministries

His Way Out has been faithfully ministering to men and women seeking a way out of sexually broken lifestyles since 1994. We could not do it without the support of Christians like you. Every dollar that you give to His Way Out Ministries helps to further this vital ministry. Won’t you take a minute to prayerfully consider a monthly donation to His Way Out? Please consider making a one-time donation or set up a secure monthly PayPal contribution on our donation page at https://www.hiswayout.com/donate/. Thank you, Pastor Phillip Lee

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